Should Tech Industry Band Together to Defend Against Regulators?
Regulators are upping their enforcement.
At the target are often small companies.
And those cases set the rules for all.
Should the small companies band together to push back?
We discuss in this edition of The Financial Transactions of the Future Economy(TM) Show and Podcast with The Our Shawn and Dali Kranzthor.
Here is the YouTube video: https://youtu.be/2_FkAtTBt7U
REMEMBER: More videos on the future economy are available at http://futuredoneright.com
Below is a machine transcript of the interview —
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Hey everyone to see our Sean, welcome to another edition of the financial transactions of the future economy. Today we will be talking about tech industry.
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And regulators regulators, one of our favorite topics of the show. And what we’re seeing right now is regulators are going after a lot of small companies, companies that didn’t really do their homework.
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Companies that were quite frankly a little sloppy and how they did their compliance and they’re knocking them down.
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And they’re building a court cases and a lot of court cases against icos against trading platforms, all these are building a set of case law for both the SEC, and the CFO etc and other governmental bodies.
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What the question we’re going to raise today is, you know, should the small companies band together.
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And try to set the precedent, a certain way. So,
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We’ll be diving into a little bit. For those of you don’t tune in as often on the are Sean I’m a corporate lawyer. I work with people on everything that touches the ownership and control their business that may be a merger.
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Maybe a partnership agreement may be a capital raise. I also speak and consult with people on business planning business strategy. I’m a CPA BY license.
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My co host Delhi craft store is also a CPA. He asked the CFO of companies and he’s a CPA and CFE which means he has expertise and valuations and fraud examination. Both are very important things for the future economy.
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We plan to as you work through the show, you’ll have a better understanding of what’s happening out there, some of the cases we’re seeing
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And whether it makes sense for maybe some of these small companies to band together.
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And create a common defense and a common set of all. So we’ll dive into that some more.
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In the meantime, we love your comments when they’re there. Now while you’re watching the show dropping wherever you’re watching our Sean McBride on LinkedIn Valley transfer on LinkedIn, Twitter.
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Financial transactions, a future economy YouTube channel wherever you’re watching just drop your comments below will be reading them.
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And I remind you, we have a comment contest. That’s kind of the week gets invited on to the show.
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Once again, a quick reminder we do not do investment advice and we do not do legal advice on the show, consult your own advisors for those everything here is just for your education and further knowledge.
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So hopefully you can find some opportunities for yourself in the future work with your advisors on this Dolly. Welcome to the show again.
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Hey, good to be here again and again we love this. We’re here every day we’re bringing in the hottest topics, all the time. Sean and I hope everybody out there. It’s feeling a little bit more awake, as we move through the day from our 7am to our 2pm. That’s why we do this.
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7am 10am 2PM Eastern every day. You know, usually we have guests on twice a day, every once in a while. Today’s kind of a special treat. And that’s not taking anything away from the guests with Dolly, and I get some time together.
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To do this show, because we had some guests move around, you know, the scheduling things happen. So, Dolly. You know what, what are we seeing out there, what’s happening.
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Well, we’re seeing more regulation and so every time you add a regulation hurdle to anything. It doesn’t matter. It doesn’t matter whether you’re in the trash business the environmental business.
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Software business but we’re seeing hurdles being added almost daily like to the software industry.
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So what happens is the companies that have lobby and ability they have lobby power there in Washington, they have the relationships. They have the supply chains all set up this actually strengthens them.
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Because usually they are actually part of the conversation.
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Who this couldn’t hurt is all of your entrepreneurs out there who are trying to go out there, they’re trying to build something they’re trying to innovate and so the old model was build something
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Move fast break things and then get acquired. And so this full ecosystem is out here in Silicon Valley. It’s super robust. It’s one of the best ecosystems that’s ever existed.
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But our big worry is if we start regulating on the tech side and we start regulating from a developer side.
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That this could damped in our ability to have an awesome supply chain technology, which by the way is America’s number one biggest export.
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And it is estimated that China steals between 304 hundred billion a year up to 2.5 trillion TOTAL OF US IP. So this is a big deal. And this is global. And this is something we need to talk about right now because we cannot lose our competitive advantage.
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Competitive advantage is super important. Let’s, let’s dive a little bit in here. I mean, you kind of alluded to it, we’d love we don’t love we
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Have made a focus of talking about program or liability because it’s such an important topic these days.
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And I think the government’s making big steps. Let’s run that down the SEC has now gone after a programmer who programmed in exchange, they didn’t go after the company. Interestingly, they went after the person that started the exchange that enabled the programming of it.
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We’ve seen remarks from the sea FCC Commissioner very intentional remarks talking about programmer liability, you read the FTC transcript very intentional.
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Time to aiding abetting liability extension law very reason, right. It’s not like this guy made an off the cuff remark, while he’s on stage.
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He knew exactly the message he was going to send we stepped on stage in Dubai, about a month, month and a half ago.
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So we’re seeing them go after programmers you and I’ve talked about the fact that this may be a sea change for the programming world because it may no longer be efficient.
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For a single program or to do programming. So the SEC set up and knock down and won a case against you know a programmer here.
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But then that sets a precedent for other programmers that programmers can be liable.
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The question becomes, Dolly, you know, does it make sense for the programmers and we’re using them as an example.
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Should they be getting together maybe some industry fun or something hiring a common defense team to keep the laws from moving against them and building this case law that that that really puts them in a tough situation.
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Yeah. Sean I they’re gonna have to do something. And so if you look at like our professions like I’m a CPA. So I have the Association of Certified Public Accountants
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To deal with. I have a CPA, I have Nakba National Association of Certified evaluation analysts.
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So what we’re seeing out there is that we’re going to have to have some kind of programming groups that are going to start aligning start building these types of associations.
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That probably you will pay a do too. But then you will be able to have the access to all of this, you know, information and they will have checklists and
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Basically a lobbying group expectation in you know in Washington, that’s going to be required of the specific guy you’re talking about Zachary Coburn got hit with a $400,000
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Fine, which is very interesting because like you said almost always these companies are taken down at the same time as a fine happens
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This time the so this was ether delta. So, that is a decentralized exchange will hear this word a lot. It’s called decks.
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Is built on a protocol called oh wax. It’s a coin that Coinbase just added. So what’s very interesting about the Sean is any programmer in the whole world.
00:07:15.090 –> 00:07:25.260
Can go take that protocol and actually do a very similar thing is that critical burned and and create a centralized exchange. What this does is takes bidding and
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You know matches buyers and sellers across borders anywhere in the world with different crypto currencies potentially even fiat currencies potentially securities in the future so
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What super interesting is Zach got hit, but his protocol is so up and running. It can’t be taken down. It’s a decentralized application and it’s open source, so that means anybody right now could go and fork it. Now what fork it means is, copy it.
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And move it forward with new and different code. So we have thousands of these things pop up. And so the
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question then is how in the world do you regulate something that as soon as one pops up. There’s five more and more. And there’s one in Malta and there’s 15 in China, and there’s 50 in India, and so are we wasting our time here, Sean.
00:08:14.640 –> 00:08:22.800
Well, let’s stop for a second. Let me and let it here’s here’s where I keep brought it to let’s let’s look at the CF TC Commissioners comments right in Dubai.
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And we’re referring to is October speech and the CF TC Commissioner says, look, if you enable somebody to break the regulations of the CF TC we will hold you liable.
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Now that’s an extension of law right if you help somebody rob a bank, you’re going to jail. That’s exactly the example he uses
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What he’s saying now is if you write a piece of code and let somebody break the law, you know that you might be letting them break the law. You’re the one that’s going to be liable. That’s you.
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I was going to take that a little deeper though john
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Because to really bring the point for work. So he created this protocol when it gets for and somebody else to use it that on their own system is he liable again and
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Again and again
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That’s, that’s the way that those two. That’s the way it reads
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You know, Gary.
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I’ve talked to some other professionals, but the standard in his if you read his wording carefully and I’ve read that warning multiple times.
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And gone through and done it with, you know, the deep read reading, word for word.
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It says, is it foreseeable that would be used by a US person, of course, now this is the USC FTC. So we have jurisdiction over us.
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Isn’t foreseeable to be used by a US person to violate their regulations and now you have to remember to see FTC
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Has got cryptocurrency and they’re going for a land grab will jurisdiction, trying to get everything under the definition of commodities.
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If it’s foreseeable. Can you see it happening that somebody will use it to violate their regulations, they’re going to hold you liable. At least that’s what they’re going for it. I will read it so court cases testing that I’m sure
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But that’s big right because that means that’s exactly what we’ve been talking about on the show because the chain of this becomes very long.
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When you write a piece of code, you have to think about. Could somebody use this code to violate US law, and that means either. You’ve got to restrict access to it or you got to restrict scope of it in compliance with US law. It’s a big burden for that programmer, it’s
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Not only is it a big part of burden, but it’s impossible, based on the current landscape, because these are all open source projects. So everybody has full transparency into any public blockchain.
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Is easy to get hub right now. You can see how much code has been updated today who updated.
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So this is the trail that even the programmers are leaving right there, everybody that’s associated with the project is documented in real time as updating these things is putting a new tickets
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So my question is how long to the sea FTC starts going in and saying, Hey, we noticed that you updated in the Ethereum blockchain dirty. Where’s your proof that your update is in accordance with the FTC law SEC law and the government
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You know, when do they start going and actually trying to get them before it even happens and
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Again, to me, Sean I you know I usually try not to take these super hard stances. But I think this is a
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Very hard thing to view for any regulator. And I think as a taxpayer and somebody that’s out there that’s paying for all these people right you’re paying for all these regulators to go out there, do all this work right all these memos higher
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You know, you’ve got people being arrested in jails, is it worth it, are we are we just doing a few tile exercise here.
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That we need to stop and just say, wait a minute, what’s the overall goal here are these laws even relevant anymore.
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Do we need to regulate every single security transaction in the world. If you go back to 1933 when the Securities and Exchange Commission started there was a big need for help.
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There was no information. There was no computers. There was no transparency, there was people selling you know tickets on the street that had no backing at all.
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Now in the modern age. If I want to go research, a company, there is a lot more information I can be excited about an industry. I can go research the founders, the owners. So with that information. The question is,
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Do we just need to throw out all these security laws and start over and create something that’s more symbiotic with this new paradigm
00:12:27.930 –> 00:12:34.590
Well yeah and that’s that’s a, that’s a big question. Of course that’s fun. And that’s, that’s really a congress question right, that’s a
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You know, does Congress restructure the missions right i mean i mean the regulator’s as much as I’m disappointed with the slowness of them.
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And I’m disappointed with the fact that they’re they’re dis coordinated right our regulators in the US are not working together.
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Each of them is carrying out their mission and duty right and I give them no fault for that the CFC. I mean, they are to regulate commodities and I guess it’s reasonable for them to try to get as much stuff into the definition of commodities as possible. They’re trying to protect people
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So they they’re there to regulate securities again they’re trying to get a broad definition of securities protect as much as they can.
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Somebody you know from my opinion needs to come in there and say let’s all get on the same page, folks. You know who’s taking control this. What do we want the regulation to look like.
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You’re right. There’s a lot more information. Now, you know, and the accredited investor standard. We’ve talked about that a lot here, right.
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Why should some people get access to some investments others don’t. When the information is so widely distributed. So available.
00:13:43.980 –> 00:13:52.200
You know it does. It does. Questions and fundamental fairness, especially when you have things like lottery tickets and scratch offs and other things like that.
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At your local fair right you can spend money on all these it even if you’re not a millionaire, but you can’t buy into a company, if you’re not a millionaire. I mean, it just, it doesn’t really make a lot of sense.
00:14:03.780 –> 00:14:08.820
Right. So as the American people. Anybody that’s listening to this hopefully Congress even has a year.
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It is my opinion that we need to protect the people that need protection. And so, who are those people exactly, and why are they being protected. If you look at our sales and the marketing out there that is
00:14:21.660 –> 00:14:35.730
Basically hitting people all day every day with brick brands images. Where’s the protection from that. Where’s the protection for me going broke because I spent all my money because I don’t know how to control my own instincts and I keep using that plastic, you know,
00:14:36.000 –> 00:14:45.780
That message, but I can go and put 100 bucks on you know some real piece of real estate and downtown that I think over the next 30 years could turn into $2,000
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On and that’s where it’s broken, Sean. And so the question again as the taxpayers are listening to this.
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You are paying those hours. Okay, so I want you to be very, very clear about this, every single time they put a new regulation, every time they have another meeting every time any of this is happening, your footing the bill.
00:15:03.810 –> 00:15:16.890
So you just the people need to vote with your dollars and vote with your votes and say, is this what I want. Do I need to be protected. Is this money being spent wisely. If you think the answer is yes. And we’re all for it. We are a democracy.
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We want people to be represented how they need and need to be represented. But what we want to avoid is this false sense of protection with it is maybe not real protection, maybe it is actually isolationism and stopping some people from moving up the has to system seems to exist.
00:15:36.510 –> 00:15:45.060
Well, that, that, that is that is a real issue. You know, I’m very concerned for the programming standpoint, about the cost of layers. This adds to it. I mean, obviously we don’t want
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We don’t want programs that be the speculation or violation of the FTC rules or SEC rules.
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But the problem is when you start tying it to aiding and abetting liability, you start giving people secondary liability right one.
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Nobody’s saying that the program or wrote the program intending to violate the law. I mean, I think that’s completely different case right if somebody call it said, hey,
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Programmer. I want to write a law, and I want to violate all these see FTC regulations. I want to set up an illegal exchange. Will you help me out right that program or
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You know, should be liable should go to jail. No question. But somebody calls up says, Hey, you know, our teams. Look at this. We started a new company, we want to set up an exchange and
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Our legal counsel thinks it’s cool. And, you know, we want to hire you to write the code and program goes in there.
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Relying on their legal counsel thinking they’re doing the right thing.
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And turns out it’s reasonably foreseeable that it was going to be used by a US person. We know that
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Is it foreseeable, it’s going to violate the law, will the program and a lot of cases doesn’t know. I mean, you’re putting the program or in a quite a box right they have to now know whether the program they write violates the law. They’ve got express legal expertise.
00:16:52.290 –> 00:16:57.570
That’s, that’s just that’s that’s kind of quiet a lot of programming down a lot of companies aren’t going to get off the ground.
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A lot of programmers, you know, are not going to be able to make it economically, the ones that are careful that want to get legal opinions or other protection.
00:17:05.820 –> 00:17:17.640
Their, their rates are to go through the roof. They may not get jobs. The and careful ones, the ones that are hiding in foreign countries. They’re the ones are going to start getting the jobs, the ripple effect of this can be really bad.
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Well, and the other big question is, what is the
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What is the outcome we’re looking for are we looking for to democratize all systems of open source government activities because this technology is stuff that it can do.
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So again, I asked the taxpayers. Do you want to spend the money on the enforcement on creating regulations blocking making things more complicated having more required attorneys to do anything.
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Making Silicon Valley. It’s like, oh, there’s a programmer. There’s an attorney, there’s a programmer. There’s an attorney, that’s where we’re headed guys
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So maybe it would be better to spend the money on things like creating open sourcing budgets.
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Things that say hey you know what we want to actually be able to follow the real costs and expenses of a school
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Of a municipality of the municipality that I live in. I want to go in and say, what are we, how are we doing this and maybe I have some ideas that I want to write a letter to my congressman
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But as of right now, the only transparency, I have is, you know, I get my tax bill that says, you know, this is where we spend some money for your property taxes. This is what we did over here.
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But I feel very, very uninformed of where this 21 trillion as. Okay, so we’re at $21 trillion deficit. Now we’re all word theoretically running over a trillion a year in deficit why
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Country in the world.
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But you know, I don’t know. I don’t know the facts, but you know there’s quotes out there, the Canadian Canadian Defense Minister made comments you know about a decade ago that
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Us had spent over a trillions of dollars thousands of billions of dollars on secret projects that aren’t even controlled by Congress or the president right so
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I don’t know. You know that that’s that’s deep that’s big questions. But the government has gotten federal government we know is very big, you know, US federal government is probably the largest institution in the world.
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And it’s got a lot of power. It’s got a lot of a lot of tentacles. The one thing I don’t hear it and don’t hear very much of even with the Trump administration is
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Let’s get coordinated, let’s get efficient in the government right Trump, Trump talks about creating jobs manufacturing all that I haven’t heard much about
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Let’s win the war to be the first and technology. Let’s uh, let’s get coordinated and speak with one voice Europeans, oddly enough, you know, brought all their multiple countries together.
00:19:39.360 –> 00:19:52.740
And they are largely speaking on one voice GDPR is one voice and it gives it at least certainly it’s a it’s a big regulatory burden, but everybody is subject to it. Everybody knows what it is. And it’s very clear.
00:19:54.420 –> 00:20:03.960
Absolutely a shot. And so if the audience doesn’t know Putin, the leader of Russia, just two days ago game, a huge speech. He is very, very upset about sanctions and us.
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The US using sanctions to kind of police the world police the world trade and so he actually made inferences that they’re going to use digital currencies to skirt. These
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Different things. So, in my opinion, if this is what we’re facing. And the trade war and the potential to lose the US as the global currency backed currency, then we have a bigger risk here because
00:20:26.940 –> 00:20:37.500
That’s what supports our $21 trillion deficit. Because if people stopped buying those bonds. We have a Ponzi scheme, all of a sudden, nobody’s going to buy. There’s nobody. There’s no money to pay it. There’s no money to pay all the interest
00:20:37.860 –> 00:20:47.970
Um, so, you know, if that’s the case, then why are the regulations, not trying to move things forward faster so that we can actually compete and actually dominate the world trade.
00:20:48.210 –> 00:20:54.300
Using these tools on the other side. We’re seeing China. One Belt, One Road. They’re also unifying so it is my opinion.
00:20:54.600 –> 00:21:00.000
That we need to do that. And I’ll tell you what I’m going to make. I’m going to go on record and make a huge prediction right now, Sean.
00:21:00.270 –> 00:21:11.280
And that’s that we are going to see a bigger turf war between the government us and states. And so we’re going to see some states it’s already starting to happen actually say you’re wrong.
00:21:11.640 –> 00:21:17.550
We need to create we need these systems, we need to create this transparency. So the movement is happening right now in Wyoming.
00:21:18.330 –> 00:21:22.620
I don’t know, Charles Hoskinson the leader of these coasts, the co creator of a theory of
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He’s the leader of a place of a platform called card Dano just move this headquarters from Hong Kong, the leading global capital of the world to Wyoming.
00:21:31.950 –> 00:21:38.790
Now, isn’t that crazy, the most innovative guys are moving to Wyoming. So, this reminds me of Atlas Shrugged and when everybody moved to Colorado.
00:21:39.300 –> 00:21:48.960
So why oh man is hot guys. And then we’re also seeing it now in Ohio, with Ward David said he’s putting out a bill to try to say, hey, you don’t need to have any worries about
00:21:49.590 –> 00:22:04.290
See FTC SEC any of these guys, the Federal Government will not regulate within this state, then we’re seeing places like Colorado and California who have huge issues with all these entitlements and these would be ways to get the money quicker and faster and more efficient.
00:22:05.640 –> 00:22:17.100
So, you know, I think we’re going to see this escalate and I hope we talk more and more about this because I see state saying, You know what, just like with the marijuana thing we’re going to do what we want. We think this is the best decision.
00:22:17.610 –> 00:22:27.270
Yep. Folks are goes wake people up Dolly’s woke you up with a big prediction there. We asked you to like comment share get more people on to the show, get more people into this conversation.
00:22:27.690 –> 00:22:33.840
We want to hear from you, I remind you, we have our comment contest going on best comment of the week we’re reading all those comments.
00:22:34.350 –> 00:22:40.350
That’s kind of the week gets invited onto the show, we’re looking for interns. So if you’re a motivated individual or, you know, motivated individual
00:22:40.680 –> 00:22:48.660
Wants to do the research dive in these issues really see what’s going on behind the scenes reach out to us planning done right comm slash in terms
00:22:49.410 –> 00:22:56.940
You can find me at the are Sean on LinkedIn, Twitter, you find us at the financial transactions of the future economy YouTube channel.
00:22:57.510 –> 00:23:09.720
And you find dolly dolly craft store LinkedIn and Twitter as well reminder we don’t do investment advice or legal advice on the show, talk to your advisors and it’s time for dollars quote
00:23:10.830 –> 00:23:19.590
Hey, thank you, Sean. I also have one little thing today is fresh music Friday. And I came across an amazing album. It’s a mix of like classical with ambience
00:23:19.800 –> 00:23:31.020
It’s called overview effect. It’s by Roger goulart it’s on Spotify. It’s on the top list. It is amazing has some great Milan in it. Um, the, quote, today is
00:23:33.300 –> 00:23:48.990
Here it is. Sorry. Um, it is very important to generate a good attitude of good heart as much as possible from this happiness in both the short term and the long term for both yourself and others will come and that is by one of my favorite people in the world, the Dalai Lama.
00:23:49.950 –> 00:23:51.510
And tell us, not a bathroom, by the way.
00:23:52.620 –> 00:24:04.830
More past videos at future done right com you can also check out our upcoming shows what pat you on the back for doing the great work both. Thank you for being here. Thanks for investing in yourself.
00:24:05.310 –> 00:24:14.850
And for being the leaders of the future and the number you can sign up for our email list to get advance notice of our shows to hear what’s going on to maybe get some behind the scenes information.
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All that’s a future done right calm. Scroll down there. Check out the page. We look forward to hearing from you folks. Thanks for joining us again.
00:24:22.500 –> 00:24:33.750
Hey, thank you shot your work or your Broke Guys at 10am 7am to 2PM Eastern tomorrow we’re bringing you a special from Washington conference. So watch out for that it should post up live. Yes, look. Look for
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A look for us 815 with the show and then also alive, looking at Washington DC. So be following her LinkedIn accounts.